Mazda’s future?

"mazda616" (mazda616)
09/27/2019 at 14:56 • Filed to: Mazda

Mazda sales are tanking across the board - even with their crossovers, which should be a hot commodity in today’s SUV-focused world.

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Odds on them giving up and leaving the U.S. market someday? I’m starting to seriously wonder.

I’ll be sad if I’m left with an orphan car with hard to find parts and no resale value. I don’t want to be like a Suzuki Kizashi owner.

I’m half tempted to dump the 6 now and quit while I’m ahead. But, I can’t get anything nearly as nice for the money I would get out of the 6.

Sad.

DISCUSSION (58)

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:10

Mazda will tank before Nissan or Mitsubishi, because Mazda is too focused on ICE power. Plus, they make compromised cars for normal people. They are just too uncomfortable for people who just want a commuter. Even Motor Trend, who never really says anything negative about Mazda, stated the new CX-5 has a jarring, baby waking ride. IMO that is a bit generous. The loaner CX-5 I had was louder and bouncier than my C5, which has little to no sound deadening and leaf springs.

mazda616 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/27/2019 at 15:16

My mechanic thought my 6 had a bad wheel bearing or at least one on its way out, purely because it has so much road noise.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:20

Subaru should buy Mazda and then make a three rotor turbo outback with a CVT.

shop-teacher > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:23

Times are tough right now for Mazda, but they’ve been through rough patches before. I wouldn’t go pushing the panic button yet.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:24

It’s something I could stand in a Miata, not in a crossover or sedan.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > shop-teacher
09/27/2019 at 15:24

They are still making money, that’s more than you can say for Tesla.

Manny05x > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:40

If they leave cheap CX 9 signature for me, i love Mazda.

MrSnrub > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/27/2019 at 15:47

The loaner CX-5 I had was louder and bouncier than my C5, which has little to no sound deadening and leaf springs.

I find that a bit hard to believe. Maybe you had a bad one. It’s not unheard of for dealers to leave shipping pucks in the suspension or something like that. When I test drove the CX-5 and CX-9 I found them both very smooth, a bit firmer but about as quiet as the 2016 Impala I was driving at the time.

But Mazdas do still tend to be more cramped than similarly-sized competitors , and often more expensive. That probably doesn’t help them.

412GTI > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:54

I don’t foresee them closing up shop and leaving the US market that soon. I wouldn’t worry too much about getting rid of your 6 or not having parts availability. 10 years down the road might be bleak, but okay for now.

Shame Mazda is a great brand, but they don’t make anything I’d currently want to purchase or charge too much (in the case of the new 3).

MrSnrub > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 15:58

Mazda dropped the 2.0L engine for the new generation 3 and probably lost a lot of low-end sales because of that. $22k is a high entry point for a compact sedan and Mazda doesn’t usually discount much . On the other hand, the lack of a more powerful engine choice than the 2.5L NA Skyactiv limits its appeal as a premium option.

It’ll be interesting to see how the CX-30 does. Hopefully for Mazda’s sake it will add more sales in total than it will cannibalize from the 3 and CX-5.

If Mazda gets into real trouble, I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually get subsumed into Toyota somehow.

Under_Score > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 16:37

Think about how your wife didn’t want a CX-9.

mazda616 > Under_Score
09/27/2019 at 16:44

I know. And her dislikes were easily justified and true. My annoyances with my 6 are as well. If I could dump it evenly for a Camry or an Accord, I would.

facw > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 17:37

Doesn’t seem especially likely to me. It’s true that the only non-premium/n iche brand they outsell is Mitsubishi, but they are outselling Audi, Tesla, Acura, Infiniti, Volvo, Land Rover, Porsche, Mini, Jaguar, Genesis, and of course Smart, though I doubt their margins are as high. I don’t think it’s panic time yet. They may get burnt for not investing much in hybrids/electrics though.

If they do struggle, they might be tempting for a Chinese company looking to have an instant nationwide US dealer presence, and maybe even selling Chinese cars under the Mazda brand.

arl > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 17:39

They make darn good-looking vehicles though. I can’t imagine a world where you couldn’t buy new a new Miata.

Maybe they should just make sports cars?! Miata all the things! Drop top family cars!

Chariotoflove > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 17:41

They’re not going to fold all of a sudden. Don’t worry about it too much.

dogisbadob > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 18:40

Yup! Mazda made a mistake by trying to be premium and shit. Should’ve stayed in their niche of fun sporty cars (can include crossovers too)

Plus, they’re known for being quite rust-prone

Ditching the Mazdaspeed cars was a mistake. Not offering the MAzda6 wagon with the I4 was a mistake. Dropping sticks was a mistake. Dropping the cute lil 5 minivan was a mistake. Dropping the 2 big mistake. Even selling the 2 at Toyota dealers and calling it a Yaris doesn’t fool anyone because Toyota buyers see it for what it is.

Mazda needs to sell the 2 for a low price. If they can start it under 10k here, great. A nice basic fun car with a 5-speed manual. Offer higher-spec models, too, and also a Mazdaspeed 2

Too bad Mulally didn’ t try to buy Mazda outright. They would’ve been Ford Japan. Sell the cars as Mazda in Japan, and Ford everywhere else.

Maybe Mazda could’ve bought one of GM’s factories that just idled. Right now, they have no US presence. The only factory they had in the US was the shared Flat Rock Mustang factory.

And there’s nothing wrong with the Kizashi. It is a cool car :o)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 19:28

Way too early to go thinking about replacing the car...even orphan cars aren’t that hard to find parts for, depending. Didn’t an Oppo buy a Kizashi recently and hasn’t had any issues with doing so yet?

AJKepler > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/27/2019 at 19:46

Electric vehicles make up something like 2% of the us market and are currently not profitable for automakers so I doubt that their problem is that they’re not focused on niche vehicles that won’t make them money .

ICE vehicles are still where all automakers except tesla are making any profits a nd the only reason Tesla is the exception is because they don’t sell ICE vehicles.

Mazda is either not making ICE vehicles that enough Americans want to buy or they're not doing a good enough job of marketing themselves.

Tru-boost > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 19:49

My experience with Mazdas have been great. I own a 2007 mazdaspeed 3, 2009 mazda 5,and a 2012 mazda 3. All have been nothing but perfect. Tires, brakes, and fluids only. And i have to admit I drive them all hard. In my opinion, the problem with mazda mazda currently is that they are tryin to...... not be mazda. The years when mazda mad great sales they were true to the “zoom zoom” They made fairly low cost cars that were reliable and fun to drive. Now they want to pretend to be mercedes all of a sudden and start charging more money for underpowered “average” cars. They dont offer a single exciting vehicle anymore. Just the same old stuff wrapped in a shiny new wrapper. The tech is sub standard, and frankly you just dont get as much car for the money with them anymore.

MickelG > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 19:51

My 3 hatch with a six speed manual is a great car. Nobody in the US wants a manual anymore though. They want autos, CVTs or they Uber.

The 3 outsells Corollas in Australia speaking of uninspiring cars.

Faizir > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 21:05

A world where Mazda has a hard time surviving is world that is less and less interesting to me. The rise of SUVs, and the ubiquity of electrics means that a utomotive passion is dying. Crappy cars and crappy music is the future. That means a crappy world

SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 21:28

M azda has always been worse off in the US t han their peers, due to a differing ethos and a constant run in with introducing good product at the wrong time.

I had a rental Mazda6 and my whole family loved it, save for the underwhelming engine (we were in the mountains). Several people I know have CX-5's and thoroughly enjoy them as well. They do give up some visibility, space, and comfort to their core value of giving the driver a connected experience and unique design-focused style. I have heard from potential buyers that they found the Mazda3/CX-3 too cramped and lacking AWD, so they turned to Subaru Crosstreks. Mazda has since fixed the AWD concern, but practicality is a perceived emphasis for buyers at the moment, and f un or fashionable cars are losing a lot of ground to function.

I am biased toward Mazda as I’ve owned several and my interests are aligned with their philosophy of sport, connected, and design first efforts. Despite this, I can’t fault normal b uyers for looking elsewhere.

SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/27/2019 at 21:32

Mazda is developing hybrid and EV technologies, but they are being honest to themselves and the market by focusing on what is profitable and possible for them today and near-term tomorrow.

T esla only makes money on EV's because they charge a lot for them and compromise in other areas that long-standing brands have sorted out. As time goes on I assume EV's will become more common, cheaper to manufacture, and hopefully have better standards in place that will make smaller manufacturers like Mazda more willing to take the leap.

Joe > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 21:39

This is ridiculous. I have a ‘1 8 Touring CX5 and it’s perfect. No excessive noise. A good amount of pep and nice refined interior. How old was the CX5 you drove??

Under_Score > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 22:14

I was just thinking about how Mazda’s just don’t click for some people.

RIDO > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 22:20

Get a Tesla, I did. Looked at CX-9 for 3 years and got a Model 3 instea . Not the best replacement for an SUV but I realized it's actually not necessary. MODEL Y in the future. No more ICE cars for me and shame Mazda with their beautiful designs is not going electric already, or didn't they just announce they will?

mazda616 > RIDO
09/27/2019 at 22:48

Lol. You wildly overestimate my income if you think I could even dream of owning any sort of Tesla.

a cat named scruffy- live from Caldor > mazda616
09/27/2019 at 23:28

I was used car shopping recently and I wanted to like the 6 but something just felt lifeless about it d espite what the reviewers said about it.

I think a lot of it was the somewhat under-powered 4 banger. If I had a larger budget perhaps I would have looked at the turbo 4 version but for the money it costs I suspect I would have still gotten something else.

After taking hour long test drives in the 3 and the 6 I understand better why they don’t win customers away from Honda and Toyota. The bang for the buck factor isn’t there and their cars aren’t better in any of the ways that most people looking for a commuter car would notice.

Under-powered, noisy, cheap cabin materials and somewhat uncomfortable seats compared to the competition aren’t a good combo.

I would be more likely to look past these things (except the under-powered part) in a sports car or actual sports sedan but not in a commuter car.

sleewok > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 00:43

I had 2 bearings go bad on my 2015 cx-5. First one was in 2017. I have never had a car with bad bearings...

It is very difficult selling these privately ( at least in Indiana ). I had it listed for over a month and only had one person come look. I had it listed at a great price.

Mike1974 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/28/2019 at 07:51

Rubbish - the new CX5 has been lauded for very good NVH. They have added sound deadening etc in all ca rs so they are class leading for noise, quality, design.

Ronald Miranda > RIDO
09/28/2019 at 08:03

They will!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Mike1974
09/28/2019 at 09:24

Calm yourself there, the OP of this post is literally part of a Mazda fan club, and he admits the NVH is bad. The NVH is still horrible.

T Zumbach > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 09:34

I’m on my 4th. 1 626, 2 3’s and last is a 6. No more. 5 broken motor mounts and partial computer replacement on a 2010 3. The 6 has a hesitation they can’t find. It’s dangerous.

Mcstrau111 > SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja
09/28/2019 at 09:47

I love my Mazda6, it's a very reliable car. I am now on my 2nd Mazda6, still loving it. Looking forward to buy a CX5, I've been wanting that crossover for a long time

TxFlOr > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 10:12

Mazda’s best hope for survival is a takeover by Toyota. They’ve started working together and Toyota has made statements about the value they get from working with Mazda. Toyota just increased its stake in Subaru so there’s hope.

StalePhish > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 10:27

CX-9 and Tesla Model 3 have the same starting MSRP when you factor in federal and local tax incentives. And then of course Model 3 has a wildly lower operating cost.

My wife also has a Mazda6 and she likes it, but her next car will definitely not be a gasoline powered Mazda.

404 - User No Longer Available > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/28/2019 at 11:23

They are just too uncomfortable for people who just want a commuter.

Bit of a double-edged sword there, they went sporty to be different. Appliance buyers will still resort to THH.

MurlinatoR > StalePhish
09/28/2019 at 12:02

That is a really silly thing to say. LOL

So is the cost of a 6 year old F350 diesel with 90k miles.

Jeremiah > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 12:27

Yeah I don’t think so. I was just talking to an important Mazda figure and he told me that in the very near future they are coming out with some more luxury touch tech on the vehicles. Essentially they are moving into the luxury market with just about the exact same features and setup with half the price.

They will eventually do EV, everyone will. But that's another story.

Jeremiah > StalePhish
09/28/2019 at 12:29

Why are we comparing Tesla Model 3 to a very large SUV such as the CX-9? That doesn’t really make sense to me.

Joe > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 14:15

I got 2019 Mazda 3 hatchback (base model) at $ 204/moth lease and 3k down. Few bucks more a month than a civic sport, and I’m not sorry.

Im not sure how to compare the amount of amenities between the 2 vehicle, the civic with its 1.5 T lifeless engines and it is CVT trans. That makes driving experience as bad as anyone can imagine.

I wish that mazda stick a 2.oL turbo in the M3! I would keep it after lease for sure.

Joe > a cat named scruffy- live from Caldor
09/28/2019 at 18:11

Ummm... the interior in newer Mazda vehicles isn't cheap feeling/looking. The interior in my 1 year old CX5 looks like it belongs in a vehicle $10k-$15k more expensive.

Joe > Tru-boost
09/28/2019 at 18:13

I don't drive a Mazda for the tech. I drive a Mazda for the way it drives. It doesn't drive like a Honda or Toyota or Nissan and that's what I like.

Joe > MrSnrub
09/28/2019 at 18:16

I do too. My CX5 isn’t noisy at all. A 10 year old Mazda...different story. Mazda isn’t just charging higher prices..... they’ve upped their game to go along with that.

Burner 6700 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/28/2019 at 18:43

Tesla is a trendy "future is now" bleeding edge tech, like the iPhone was in 2006. Not as many people can afford to splurge on a new vehicle the way they can on a phone. ICE vehicles will be selling well until gasoline starts topping $5 per gallon.

Burner 6700 > AJKepler
09/28/2019 at 18:48

Mazda has always done well with sport focused tech like RWD, manual transmission, sharp handling, light weight, things that the mainstream US car market typically neglects. I'm afraid their niche is shrinking along with the middle class.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 19:25

They are confused as to what they want to be. Their latest products are really good, but the move upmarket has hurt them in car sales as they also priced them upwards. The average driver doesn’ t give a shit about “driving dynamics” especially in certain key segments.

But I don’t care. I love how the 2.5Turbo performs and the new 6 is a fantastic midsize sedan. I will go out on a limb and say this- the moment they offer AWD on the 6 turbo, it immediately becomes one of top 3 choices for my next car.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > mazda616
09/28/2019 at 22:18

I doubt they’re gonna kick the bucket anytime soon. But I wanna know why the only offer the manual 3 on the top trim model.

JMFranklin > mazda616
09/29/2019 at 03:01

So, doing more of what’s making it tank will make it better? Mazda has m ade a really good car but gotten it really wrong. If you want to make a successful ec onomy car, do what Honda does. If you want to make a successful sports car, do what Porsche does. It really is that simple. Stop trying to brake the mold at every turn Mazda! You can’t sell in volume without doing the majority of what the volume sellers do! If the 3 was available with a manual at all trim levels, a 1.5 Turbo engine, a performance variant, and an entry-level hatch, I promise the sales would be double. Sell what the market wants rather than trying to sell them what you want them to like.

Sue > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/29/2019 at 05:03

I also had a cx5 loaner that I liked the look of but the jarring was horrible and there was a very strong burning smell. I currently own a Mazda cx7 08 and jarring isn't as bad but still very annoying. Looking to trade in next year.

hike > MrSnrub
09/29/2019 at 06:26

Mazda desperately needs the CX30 to launch at this point. Hopefully it's competitively priced with the Crosstrek, otherwise it won't stand a chance.

hike > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
09/29/2019 at 06:29

I'm not sure about now, but a few years ago Suzuki still had reps for the US market for their former dealers to get parts and I believe still had some cars covered under warranty. I was told by a former Suzuki parts manager that they can get parts, but some special parts like computers can be difficult and take time.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > hike
09/29/2019 at 06:43

Yeah, I thought I had read something similar in that Suzuki had ensured there was a decent part su pply network available for their cars before they left the market.

Miloshe > mazda616
09/29/2019 at 10:52

Had Mazda Thayer in the minivan market and invested in the 5 (I own one) they’d be in a much better spot. Look at the pacficia, it’s a slightly bigger version of the 5. The other thing is the CX5 is way too small. Had they brought the back seat leg room and cargo space up to the CRV, Rav4 or forester, they’d be in the running. I’m 6’ tall and cannot fit in the backseat of a tall person is driving. Every other suv in the class does give me the issue.

Nmvtripp > mazda616
09/29/2019 at 11:55

In the UK market Mazda is one of the few not to be suffering the burden of our Brexit situation.

I wouldn’t say they’re sufferering at all in these parts.

With the Mazda 3 mild hybrid out, and the new Skyactiv-X SPCCI engine coming out they have some great new bits of technology coming. Plus the new cars are as luxurious as a Lexus. (yes I have owned one. And I prefer my Mazda 3)

The Lexus hybrid CVTs aren’t nearly as enjoyable to drive as the more traditional drive of the mild hybrid.

Suppose its all down to different perspectives. Here... Mazda is doing well and growing.

Nmvtripp > SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja
09/29/2019 at 11:59

I have the Mazda 3 and I struggle to agree that it’s cramped. I’ve also had a CX3 and I suppose it’s down to perspective.

The new Mazda 3 MHybrid is my current ride and I love it. Its a really interactive drive, taking all the things we loved about the MX5/Miata and putting it into a practical hatch.

But I drive manual transmission usually. Purely because the British roads I drive daily are not nice in an auto.

The Americans have different goals in a car.

StalePhish > MurlinatoR
09/30/2019 at 08:28

But @RIDO wasn’t cross shopping a CX-9 with a 6 year old F350 die sel with 90k miles, he/she was cross-shopping a CX-9 with a Model 3, which is why it was relevant to mention that they are the same price when @mazda616 said the Tesla was unaffordable.

a cat named scruffy- live from Caldor > Joe
10/02/2019 at 17:03

Maybe the plastics are better in the CX-5 or the newer vehicles have better plastics than the 201 4-2015 models.

The cars I drove had more flimsy feeling armrests, glove boxes and inside door handles than the Toyota and Hondas that I drove.

I didn ’t dislike the cars , If the seats were mo re comfortable and there was a 6 cylinder I may have bought a 6.